Sabotage Feature

[DeletedUser2122]

For God's sake, this system is so heavily weighed in the favor of the attacker it's ridiculous. My defensive spies were all killed in an hour because the enemy just spammed spies over and over again. Not only that, but the rebuild time and expense is ridiculous. This system is anti fun.

 

[DeletedUser]

For God's sake, this system is so heavily weighed in the favor of the attacker it's ridiculous. My defensive spies were all killed in an hour because the enemy just spammed spies over and over again. Not only that, but the rebuild time and expense is ridiculous. This system is anti fun.

I would disagree. The simple province system with churches implies the defender has the upper hand. When you have a player/tribe with sole ownership of the province and you wish to wedge yourself in, your choices are to use a ridiculous amount of nukes (with only 1 of them attacking at full strength) or to get several players to use their paladin nukes. Given the topic of this thread though, I suppose you could just spam every village in said province with sabotage attacks until they were all puddles of goo...

 

[gencyde1]

It was never implied that Sabotage can't hit Churches either - although it is implicitly mentioned that it cannot hit Chapels. I am just wondering if it is just assumed that Churches = Chapel. If not, spamming a Church villa can break even against this province system though.

 

[DeletedUser2139]

Tip: Sabotage is an efficient way to demolish well-defended villages, as you can bring down the Farm, Church or Wall without using your armies. Of course you need a lot of villages with the "Thieves Guild".

http://wiki.en.tribalwars2.com/

 

[DeletedUser926]

...Also it is a team game...

Yes Kmork, and this is where on my opinion the principle is unbalanced: If you cannot send spies as support (from your teammates), then you simply have no defenses against sabotage.

One other way could possibly be that you'd need say a ratio of 3 to 1 to get a sabotage mission successful.
So, to get a successful sabotage mission, I would have to send 3 x 5 spies as a minimum against a village which has 5 spies in it. Black point: it still favorizes the big guys against the small one.

 

[DeletedUser2258]

The biggest problem with the sabotage atm besides the whole feature is imbalanced is that is full of bugs. My game is about to end in my only world I am playing because of this. The biggest issue is that every sabotage mission will succeed even if blocked. The report says I blocked, but actually I am loosing building levels with every single attack. The other thing is that even if the Hall of Orders is destroyed still can be sent out sabotage missions from that village. So even if I cat the HQ and Hall to level 0 the sabotage function is not disabled. I am in a leading tribe however I am a bit isolated from the rest. The enemy tribe had ganged up at me and they send waves of 1 spy attacks at my address. They destroyed hundreds of buildings including my church. I find it ridiculous that 1 spy can destroy a building that needs hundreds of catapult in normal circumstances. Not to mention this spy attack was also blocked yet I lost my church. And the top of that I didn't get my provisions back so I couldn't build back my church (!!!). All of these glitches make the play impossible to me and if not resolved in the next few days I will quit playing this game. Hopefully a game moderator or developer will read this and will come up with a solution.

 

[DeletedUser2258]

I have thought about this and I have an idea:
To damage a building with high hit point would need more than 1 attacking spy than the lower ones. Makes sense right? So let's take for ex the HQ. Suggestion: assuming the sabotage mission is successful, to damage a lvl 24-30 HQ it needs 5 spies, lvl 18-24 4 spies lvl 12-18 3 spies lvl 6-12 2 spies and finally lvl 1-6 1 spy. This can be applied to all buildings. This would prevent destroying high point villages by sending waves of 1 spy. Also it would give the defender more time to react, and somewhat would balance the whole sabotage system.

 

[DeletedUser]

I have thought about this and I have an idea:
To damage a building with high hit point would need more than 1 attacking spy than the lower ones. Makes sense right? So let's take for ex the HQ. Suggestion: assuming the sabotage mission is successful, to damage a lvl 24-30 HQ it needs 5 spies, lvl 18-24 4 spies lvl 12-18 3 spies lvl 6-12 2 spies and finally lvl 1-6 1 spy. This can be applied to all buildings. This would prevent destroying high point villages by sending waves of 1 spy. Also it would give the defender more time to react, and somewhat would balance the whole sabotage system.

I'd go one higher and say that in order to send a sabotage mission you need either to cough up resources equivalent to, or outright mint a single/multiple coin(s). There needs to be a thoughtful choice made on the part of the attacker between "Do I attack this village with my mates" or "Do I spend a bunch of resources to demolish this village without any troop losses". There also needs to be some risk involved on the part of the attacker.

As to the bug, they should suspend all sabotage features until they sort that out. Isn't it a violation of the TOS to knowingly gain from/exploit a bug? Sending a single spy that can succeed upon death from a specialized building that no longer exists to topple a church/25th level HQ/etc should be setting off the spidey senses that something isn't right.
Doing it once is acceptable. Sending wave after wave and getting several of your tribe mates to do the same is abusive and at the least against the spirit of this game. You are suppose to outwit your opponent by sheer obsessive time devoted to building up your army/resources or by cleverly applying strategies that they are not expecting. This is neither.

 

[gencyde1]

EVEN a better proposition that they CAN NEVER IGNORE: A P2P system that makes you immune to sabotage -

Description: WhistleBlower - Immune to any Spy attacks (Bonus Feature - Package includes immunity to spying, WHO CANT RESIST THAT?! THIS A LIMITED TIME OFFER ONLY! If you buy it NOW, you will get another additional feature - Opposing Spies are captured and are recruited to your thieves guild instead) - or makes your spies "super Spies", making them 10 times worth as a defending spy.

Duration: 300 spy attacks or within 48 hours.

Downside - it will cost you 100 crowns for one. It will only activate on one village. They will only sell it randomly - once a week. With limited amounts per sale.

- This is a joke -> if this ever get implemented, that would be funny as hell - I demand compensation and they should hire me XD.

 

[DeletedUser1883]

Today I used sabotage on a village, just to check out the feature and I got a green light report back that said "sabotage was successful", yet all of my spies were killed. What's up with that?

 

[DeletedUser2258]

Every spy dies when sent to sabotage mission.

 

[DeletedUser2139]

EVEN a better proposition that they CAN NEVER IGNORE: A P2P system that makes you immune to sabotage -

Description: WhistleBlower - Immune to any Spy attacks (Bonus Feature - Package includes immunity to spying, WHO CANT RESIST THAT?! THIS A LIMITED TIME OFFER ONLY!

It is actually not a bad idea.

Just find a way for the free to play players to win a WhistleBlower.

Maybe it can be earned by spying 100 times ,or 50 villages, or 20 players or some other requirement.

 

[gencyde1]

Or you can actually activate it via Thieves Guild in HoO.

Maybe come-up with a Coin-like system - or maybe make it cost close to a Noble (which is pretty much what a 5th Spy would be).

Or maybe make it so that the player can activate it ONLY if they have 5 spies - The catch is it will consume some/all 5 Spies at the end of the duration (which gives off a window of at least 21 hours for further spy attacks) - A slight balancing might be needed - it's just a rough draft.

 

[DeletedUser2159]

I also like the idea of a larger investment by the sabotage sending player. The more expensive spies should be needed to take down more important buildings and you should have to pay money to send the sabotage attacks.

Either way, the feature needs re-working, because it is annoying and not fun at the moment.

 

[DeletedUser1883]

So every spy is supposed to die when you run a sabotage? Please tell me you are joking.

 

[gencyde1]

That's why people uses 1 spy sabotage - instead of 2 or 3.

 

[DeletedUser1993]

so, in response to the general dislike for the sabotage feature in its current state, now the developers give us all the option to reset Halls of orders... so we can set all our present Halls to thieves guild, and send saboteurs from all over. i really don't understand how this will help balance this feature

 

[DeletedUser2092]

The problem with the Sabotage feature is not how easy it is to Sabotage, but the general concept of the feature itself. Why use a nuke which takes over 1 month to build when you can destroy a single villa in a day with spies that only takes 30 mins - 12 hours to train (Who gets the 5th spy anyway? ). The whole concept is in my opinion "anti fun" as there is barely anything you can do to prevent it. At least if your under attack by a normal nuke you can maneuver troops or call for aid.

As far as im aware there are three defining choices for hall of orders.

Offensive - For players looking for that extra nuke

Defensive - For players looking for defense against siege weapons (rams mostly) to gain the most out of their wall defense bonus.

Then there's Sabotage, which in my opinion falls under the offensive category as you are offensively destroying the enemies buildings as opposed to units.

What hall of orders needs is a defining choice that is Tactical. The problem is with spies is that the feature is based purely on luck, making it hard to create a tactical feature with spies.

So far with each choice (apart from sabotage) you get unique unit. As some of you may know there is an achievement called "Bounty Hunter" which gave me the idea of the unit -Bounty Hunters-

When you choose the Order Guild of thieves your spies get replaced with the units Bounty Hunter. Which grants a higher chance of defending against spy attacks and also can be moved between villages. Bounty hunters can also be sent to enemy villages with a chance of killing enemy spies (The more you send, the higher chance of killing more spies) making it easier for your spies to spy.

Bounty hunters can still be killed like a normal spy, however they have a lower chance of dying then normal spies. Pitting Bounty Hunters vs Bounter hunters holds the same chances of Spies vs Spies.

With Bounty hunters, Sabotage seems less threatening. However i have yet to come up with a suggestion that replaces Sabotage.

This is just my opinion and a suggestion ^^

 

[DeletedUser894]

An interesting idea. Sabotage is currently out of balance in my view and does need a make over. I am in favour of only being able to use the 5th spy to sab, this would cut down dramatically on the numbers of sabs being sent as well as the rebuild time.

 

[DeletedUser924]

I hear a lot of of talk about how you can spam sabotage but they have to rebuild each time they do and if you rebuild your spies you have a greater chance of defending i'm sorry but i refuse to believe you can level a village in hours once you acount for rebuilding spies and failed missions do to the enemy rebuilding spies it would take days at best.

Next a player who used only thieves guild would be at a great disadvantage in battle and would be open to a nasty counter attack. you use your 5 spies to sabotage me i'll use the berserkers to attack you. when you think i am week i'll use the tredbuchets to destroy your rams my walls will not fall easily. I find that having few villages with hall of orders is best.

The whole point of this conversation is also meaningless because you are talking about facing over whelming odds. nothing you can do short of unbalancing the game would help you win a hopeless situation. give me one example of how this would affect a fair fight then i will consider it a problem.

I can complain that this game is hopeless because we were at war and 15 of the enemies kept bombarding me with nukes. how am i supposed to defend from 15 players focusing all their nukes one me? if you don't want the enemy to sabotage you then yes you must cat their HoO, send spies constantly to prevent them from rebuilding spies in the villages that have thieves guild. Don't say you can't cat them because they are too big. that's like taking on an entire army and complaining you can't win because they outgun you. part of the strategy is making sure you out grow all threats or have allies for those that you can't.

Also no one has ever said you are limited to finding allies in your tribes and its alliances; everyone can use their own diplomatic skills to become friends with their neighbors. If one of your neighbors has his eye on you then you can guarantee one of his neighbors has his eye on him. find that person team up and take down the over powering threat that is always what war is about. That being said you must understand many players play each world even the most skilled players are not guaranteed to win and they never have been. the saying all's fair in love and war should indicate that thee is some need for luck on the battlefield.

Another point about sabatague is that the building lost is random you could send 20 spies at my village to find that the market, statue, and rally point are all that took damage. 20 spies lost depending on which spies they were could cost a fortune to rebuild. those same resources could be used to create a nuke or a defense.

so while you spent all those resources recuperating your spies the target could build a nuke in one of his villages and wipe your neglected troop population off the face of the planet. I sent over 30 spy attempts at a heavily defending inactive player to find that the wall only dropped one level. all those resources i wasted just to face a level 19 wall to a level 20 wall. if i'm lucky it would save me 250 axe 50 c and 15 rams (approximated) in clearing the village.