Rejected Archers and their correct usage.

Jariid

Member
In medieval combat regarding archers and the logic behind their use.

Mounted archers should be much more useful against entrenched archers as a suppressing forced due to their movement/evasion and due to the fact they have a high aiming trajectory when assault castles and other fortifications, etc.

Lets go through the Logic I see for medieval combat. There is a mindless mob of infantry who didn't pay their taxes and are bustling towards another mob of infantry who have come to collect miscellaneous items from the warehouse of the former party. Now, they clash, axes fly, and swords/shield jab around trying to block and deflect attacks from left and right. Now, with the combat being engaged by the infantry, the defending sides' archers, using the only advantage they have, range to their advantage, are firing accurate volleys at the infantry who are concentrated and static in combat with the friendly infantry. They can't move, hence why the archers are more useful. Now, the Mounted archers, dedicated to suppress and harrass with their high maneouvrability, run around and avoid being blocked by infantry in order to target the foot archers in defensive emplacements/battlements. The archers, who are in static locations defensible or not, are having their effectiveness cut in half, and their offensive ability, and perhaps their lives are put in jeopardy by the fact they do not have shields large enough to avoid the volleys from the Mounted Archers.

Also, when Archers fire in volleys, logic dictates you aim for large groups to effectively assure the highest casualties. The mounted archers, with their speed will make use of it by either circling to avoid the foot archers from having a small location to focus their volleys, or simply firing and retreating to avoid mass volleys. Regardless, the Mounted Archer is entirely built for high speed and defeating those at range.

In TW2 logic, mounted archers are for killing slowmoving infantry with arrows, who will also conveniently have shields within the mob, in order to deflect arrows by, you guessed it, enemy archers. (Be they mounted or foot-based) The logic continues to suggest that mounted archers are entirely vulnerable to foot archers, who have the speed of course (sarcasm) to effectively engage mounted archers from their place (for some reason the logic suggests that they will be in amongst the infantry) close to where they are. Lets put the luck modifier in charge of bad tactical movements, but surely. If you had a mobile ranged unit, you wouldn't charge them into the same area as the infantry, and instead use them to harass those who cannot move/defend themselves effectively? (Hint hint, it's the archers without shields)

Thanks for reading my rant. TL:DR Mounted Archers are for assaulting Archers, and Foot Archers are for targetting slow moving infantry in the open, from another position to allow for high-trajectory shooting. (Which the MA employ against the Foot Archers) The logic was sound in TW1, TW2 should have followed suit.
 

DeletedUser940

Guest
think of archers in TW2 as being up on the walls behind cover so mounted archers wont be able to accurately target them while swordmen and spearmen are easy pickings on the ground for MAs to take out. as well MA's wont have as much armor on because you need the flexibility to shoot the bow and you dont want to be weighed down too much. making Mas vulnerable to archers.
next the archers arent as effective against LC and axemen because the armor has been upgraded since the times of TW1. so with better armor arrows are less effective. that is how i look at it at least.

your logic is sound for open combat but not for siegeing a town/village where walls give a great advantage to archers.
 

Jariid

Member
seecretlare;n27917 said:
your logic is sound for open combat but not for siegeing a town/village where walls give a great advantage to archers.

I understand the castle combat also. MA would use high trajectory aiming, and the foot archer own volleys would be just as inneffective since the MA used to have circling maneouvres back in middle-ages.

Sure, though light cavalry with ... heavy armour... don't they have a unit for that already? I am only pointing out that MA's would be just as useless to foot troops inside of a castle. I don't know why you'd even send cavalry to attack a fortress. Perhaps scrap cavalry entirely?
 

DeletedUser924

Guest
If you want to get really realistic have nobles be the fastest unit. You think that fat man walked there. No he bought the fastest two horse carriage money could bu and rode in style.
 

Jariid

Member
Samuri 4 life;n28076 said:
If you want to get really realistic have nobles be the fastest unit. You think that fat man walked there. No he bought the fastest two horse carriage money could bu and rode in style.


With 300 axemen being dragged along behind. :D
In all seriousness though, I'm talking archers. You can say it's castlewalls that give them the bonus, but that doesn't work against high-trajectory volleys from MA. And they aren't exactly shooting a fat slow target with a spear.
 

DeletedUser940

Guest
pretty sure MA's are amazing for open field combat. open field combat they are the shredders of armies. against a fortified city/town/village not so much. there is no open field combat in TW2 only seiging combat. and in that case archers do beat MA's. archers have the advantage of being much higher up and easy cover. while MA's are on the ground shooting up while moving. even with high-trajectory volleys their shots are wildly inaccurate at hitting archers on top of a wall. just saying historically their is a reason mounted archers weren't used to take out archers atop a fortified castle. then again i might not know the some thosands of battles that took place and their maybe one that proves me wrong but archers atop high fortified walls have always been the bane of seiging armies.
 

DeletedUser924

Guest
I'm also thinking about shooting an arrow from the back of a horse that might freight and jerk. It wouldn't be an easy thing to do so shooting high vector shots that take a long time to aim and account for wind speed was probably not their design. Archers standing could shot High vector shots. Which begs the question why are archers not good for attacking? In the real battle field they sieged towns and fortresses with volley after volley of flaming and regular arrows. So by this description wouldn't archers be an offensive unit to then?
 

DeletedUser940

Guest
archers would be a good offensive unit however strategically they are a far more superior defensive unit than offensive unit due to being able to take out enemies before they get to your army. however put them on a wall and now they become 50 times more effective at defending and not much, other than scaling a wall or destroying it with siege, can get past them
 

Jariid

Member
It's entirely situationally based. Not all battles are fought against castle-walls. And regardless, a town big enough to hold 20k troops would not be the size to scale as the village in TW2. More likely it'd be the fortress and there would be endless farmlands and surrounding towns that the fortress would have to defend from other defensible locales. In essence it's not just a big castle war.

This has turned into a debate on military strategy and the thread should be closed.

Though I'm sure that MA have an overwhelming advantage over foot archers, clearly this is a different style of play that you have chosen to deduct the abilities for. I'm good to ignore it for now.
 
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